Curse

sandman1 · Sep 01, 2005, 02:53 AM // 02:53

well im using w/m running protective spirit + frenzy
u still get hit harder on lower dmg attacks but ele air/obsidian spikes,ect will not hit for 200ish (40ish hp depending on your max health)
at 8 protection protective spirit lasts like 16-17secs?(not sure at work atm)
more than enuf for 2 frenzys

Puddin Tame · Sep 01, 2005, 04:59 AM // 04:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xylaphone

What is your beef with him? It's nice to occasionally have a different slant than the preconcived notions of many iQer's.

Well, no one said they worship the ground iQ walks on or anything, but how many times have the people using W/R's won HoH, and how many times has iQ?
Plus, I tested it for myself. Frenzy > tiger's fury (on warriors)

White Designs · Sep 01, 2005, 05:30 AM // 05:30

Acutally, I see W/R in the hall quite often. And people with it do win since I do see it on the holding teams sometimes.

It still sucks though.

Xylaphone · Sep 01, 2005, 05:35 AM // 05:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Puddin Tame

Well, no one said they worship the ground iQ walks on or anything, but how many times have the people using W/R's won HoH, and how many times has iQ?
Plus, I tested it for myself. Frenzy > tiger's fury (on warriors)

Uhh, W/R are in Halls all the time.... I haven't see iQ win during peak hours in quite some time.

Eonwe · Sep 01, 2005, 05:42 AM // 05:42

If you use that logic people will be saying that malaise and wither are good because someone that was using them won the hall.

Bast · Sep 01, 2005, 05:58 AM // 05:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by White Designs

Acutally, I see W/R in the hall quite often. And people with it do win since I do see it on the holding teams sometimes.

It still sucks though.

People driving Honda Civics win races sometimes (usually when the other driver isn't racing). Doesn't make a Civic a racecar though.

White Designs · Sep 01, 2005, 02:01 PM // 14:01

I did say it sucked, Bast

My point was that winning the hall can be done with sub-par stuff lots of times, and its not a good thing to use to determine what's good and what's not.

I kick out the W/R all the time

Enigmatics · Sep 01, 2005, 04:25 PM // 16:25

Just to clarify... KD/AS warriors NEED a 9 second Beserker's Stance to pull off a speedy Backbreaker. Frenzy and Flurry are pointless in that aspect, but you can keep using them.

Eonwe · Sep 01, 2005, 06:21 PM // 18:21

I still don't think that's a good reason to justify the use of berserker stance, ever. On top of that devastating hammer remains the best hammer elite and the only one that should be used on a primary hammer warrior imo.

Backbreaker is poor for two reasons. One, because Stonefist Gauntlets exist, making Devastating Hammer a 3 second knockdown while Backbreaker stays a 4 second knockdown. The second is because Devastating gives a much stronger knockdown chain - Devastating -> Hammer Bash has only a .5 second gap in which they can respond (whether Frenzied or not), while Backbreaker has a 1.25 second gap in between knockdowns, or .666- seconds with Frenzy. In either case the extra 3 strikes of adrenaline slows down your knocklocks immensely and makes the combo generally not worth it. Backbreaker is a skill that I'd want to run on a Warrior secondary to make up for the lack of Stonefist Gauntlets, if I ran a secondary Hammer Warrior. I stole that from ensign :| .

Tigris Of Gaul · Sep 01, 2005, 08:01 PM // 20:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eonwe

Backbreaker is poor for two reasons. One, because Stonefist Gauntlets exist, making Devastating Hammer a 3 second knockdown while Backbreaker stays a 4 second knockdown. The second is because Devastating gives a much stronger knockdown chain - Devastating -> Hammer Bash has only a .5 second gap in which they can respond (whether Frenzied or not), while Backbreaker has a 1.25 second gap in between knockdowns, or .666- seconds with Frenzy.

This part I'm not really understanding. Devastating Hammer -> Hammer Bash is the same knockdown length (maybe less) as Backbreaker -> Hammer Bash right?

Zeru · Sep 01, 2005, 08:15 PM // 20:15

BB is 4seconds because it's stupidly not affected by stone gauntlets.

Hammer bash/Dhammer/any other kd but gale is 3sec with gauntlets.

What he means is this:

Devastating hammer+1.75cooldown, then attack, another 1.75s cooldown then attack.

Devastating hammer lasts for 3sec. 2 attacks will take 3.5s.

Monks can only get in 1 spell of <.5s, which is basically prot spirit divine intervention or reversal, that won't get interrupted by the second knockdown.

With backbreaker it's this:
BB+1.75scool, attack,+1.75cool, attack,+1.75,cool, kd. Obviously that won't work. You don't have any attack between 4s and 5.25s.

Frenzy will make it 1.16s. So 4 hits will take 4.67s. Or enough for the monk to get in an orison.

If you want BB to work properly, you have to do this:

Attack, 1.75, frenzy, attack, 1.16s, attack, 1.16s, kd.

That way it's barely over 4s.

Enigmatics · Sep 01, 2005, 08:19 PM // 20:19

Ugh... I didn't know it was 3 seconds. But if Devastating Hammer+Crushing Blow+Aftershock works, then I'll amend my earlier reasons for using Backbreaker.

EDIT: the combo works. Never mind then, that's 1 extra second for 3 extra adrenaline. Seems nice on paper, but it really doesn't have any point.

LoneDust · Sep 01, 2005, 08:32 PM // 20:32

OT: Aftershock is something else. It has a long aftercast and if you can't deliver a killing damage with AS, you'll be force to just stay frozen while your target gets heal/casts heals. (unless of course, you have an smite emo helping you)

UberRusty · Sep 02, 2005, 12:03 AM // 00:03

Aftershock is pointless in Tombs if your team takes out the target before you even cast Aftershock. And after you cast Aftershock, not much energy for a while.

Puddin Tame · Sep 02, 2005, 05:06 AM // 05:06

The difference between having a W/R using TF and a W/X using frenzy will seldom decide the fate of a battle. But it may very well be the difference between a flawless victory or just a plain old boring win. It definitely helps.

Someone told me that SoH was for the E/Mo's to put on you. But just how many maintained enchantments can they take? An axe warrior with a zealous axe can maintain it much better, and that extra energy for your monk could very well mean life or death (in game o_O) especially with NR down (yes, it is still very useful against enchant heavy builds).

Eonwe · Sep 02, 2005, 05:17 AM // 05:17

Putting soh on the smiter is an option, but he can use his extra slots for better purposes, especially when the warrior, if he wants to, can just maintain it himself without a problem. I also don't seeing using frenzy or TF being the difference between a flawless victory and a normal one, sorry. I also wouldn't say that NR is still *very* useful against heavy enchantment builds, since you can just chop it down as soon as you see it.

cookiehoarder · Sep 02, 2005, 11:22 AM // 11:22

Fluuuuuuuuuuuuryyyyyyyyy!!!!!

I like both Frenzy and TF. I prefer TF though. It's just my opinion.

Nash · Sep 02, 2005, 01:51 PM // 13:51

Personal preference doesn't win games.